Spear Gun Help

[Reedy J]

I am about to buy my first spear gun.

Any advice you old salts can give me would be much appreciated.

How big of a gun is need around here?

Wood or Aluminum?

Has anyone had any experience with pneumatic guns?

If you are happy with your gun what model/brand is it?

Any guns I should stay away from?

Thanks,
Reedy

[Bayesj]

Reedy J,
You need to give us more information before we can give you any valid advice. The size and type of gun depends on what you plan to hunt with it, your personal preferences, what you can afford, etc.

Let's handle pneumatics first. I used one years ago, late 60s thru late 70s, and it is still hanging in my garage as an antique. I'm not sure that qualifies me as a salt but it sure make me old. I don't recommend them. There are limited repair capabilities for them in the local area, lose power the deeper you go, and don't have the versatility many other guns have.

I personally use a 48" AB Biller wood gun. They are relatively inexpensive, quiet, can be rigged to line or free shaft, have good range and power with the right bands, shafts and slings are readily available in the local area, can carry an extra shaft, and on and on. The only gun I would be reluctant to purchase is a JBL. They sometimes have a problem with the trigger not releasing the shaft if you use strong slings for an extended period of time.

Give us more of how you would use the gun and I'm sure others will jump in with advise.

[Reedy J]

Bayesj,
Thanks for the reply.

I am new to diving so I am not exactly sure what I will be targeting but I expect it will be mostly bottom fish, and AJs. At the same time if a stumble across a Yellow Fin or King I would like to take a shot.

Is that asking too much from one gun?

Is there such a thing as over kill? Would there be disadvantages to having a gun that is on the bigger/more powerful side other than the gun just being physically bigger.

As far as price range I would like to stay under $250.

Thanks,
Reedy

[Candy]

Reedy,

I would guess that you are going to hunt same way everyone around here does....Look for legal fish and shoot. Any gun will kill fish if your aim is good. If I were stronger, I would have a longer gun to give me more range and penetrating power.

My first spear gun was metal. It killed fish just fine but it made too much noise when I pulled the trigger. I've been using a JBL 38 special woodie for about 4 years. I like the wooden gun better because it is quieter. I have never had a trigger problem with my gun but I have never over banded it either.

(Stone did have trigger problems on one of his JBL guns because he over banded it. New trigger cost $50.00)

I recommend that you buy a gun that you can buy parts for locally. You will bend/loose shafts from time to time or break speartips. It's nice to be able to buy the parts you need today so you can go out again tomorrow.

Welcome to the wonderful world of underwater hunting.

Candy

[Reedy J]

Thanks for the info Candy.

[Candy]

Please keep an eye on the Discounts for Members Program. You could save money on your speargun purchase because of your Emerald Coast Reef Association Membership.

Aaaah, the benefits of Membership!

Candy

[Mattatoar]

Reedy... here's my thoughts.

#1 Go wood... more versatile for drilling, screwing into, modifying etc. It is more adaptable and will last longer and won't suffer stress wear as Al will. I started metal and its not seen daylight in 10 years.

#2 Length... how big can you go? Whats your height (long or short arms) and how much can you pull? Bigger guns throw more mass at longer distances (45 cal vs 9mm)... go as big as you can easily handle. The downside is you lose maneuverablity of a short small gun... its harder to swing it etc. but the increased range is worth it.

#3 Pneumatic... a specialty item used for back up only. Go small for surprising that clever/stubborn fish deep in a hole or some place you can't reach with the big gun. I keep a small one on deck and have used it rarely but it has more then earned its keep on odd occasions. Keeping them serviced is more of a pain and they are more likely to have issues (ie. I stabbed my hand while loading once in a hurry.)

#4 $... you can pay now or pay later as an upgrade. Go 48" minimum... lots like Riffe ($$$$) some do Picasso ($$$$$) or Spearfishing Specialties ($$$) - which are cleverly tricked-out AB Billers ($$) (also see Sea Hornet).

(good lord, I ramble!!!)

PM me if you need more info.... I use 2 54" Billers with spare free-shafts (no line). Used guns are fine, really! I have refurbished ones found on the reef and covered in barnacles etc. and they work great...

[Swill]

Worm
Sounds like woods the way to go. Let me know when and where your going to buy, I need to do the same.

[Candy]

Speargun shoppers,

I expect to add 2 more Scuba Retailers to our Discounts 4 Members program in the next day or so. Please keep an eye out for them in the "Members Only" forum titled "Discounts for Members" Non-members can see a listing of participating retailers on the web homepage but will not be able to see what discounts are offered.

It pays to be an ECRA Member!

Candy

[Reedy J]

Mattatoar,
Thanks for the good info. I spent ALL day Sunday doing research. Right now I am leaning towards a 48'' AB Biller right now, but that could change any minute.

Do local dive shops carry parts for AB Billers?

Thanks,
Reedy

[Mattatoar]

A 48 Biller is a fine gun. Parts are easy to come by. If you ever chose to get bigger all you need to do are purchase new shafts and middle wood. You really can't go wrong with a wood AB Biller.

Next... shoot for the head... every time.

[Bayesj]

Scubatech in Destin is an AB Biller dealer. They have a good selection of types of wood, sizes, shafts, spear heads, slings, etc. They normally come with two 9/16" slings but suggest you buy it with 5/8" slings (make sure you can load them before you drop cash on the table. They can make the sling upgrade part of the purchase and they will keep the 9/16.

[stone]

Bayesj is absolutely correct on "overbanding" the JBL Woodie series. I overbanded and "thick-shafted" my "Sawed-off" Woodie Magnum and after less than 2 years I had to file the trigger mechanism to prevent a hangfire. Another ECRA member overbanded his JBL Woodie Magnum and it suffered the same malfunction. With my longer gun (JBL Woodie Magnum), I decided to stick with the stock bands and shaft. It performs flawlwessly. Chuck's Dive World sells JBL. I get a couple of discounts and he is only a mile away, so JBL works for me (if I win the lottery, I'll get a hand made Wong).

[Mattatoar]

I got 15 years on my AB Biller and I turfed my JBL for trigger issues among others... good luck!

[spear]

My 2 cents worth, and that's about all it's worth. I use a 48' Biller inshore because of the ability to swing in quicker on reefs and wrecks, and its range is adequate. I use a 3xs Riffe (52" or 54" I think) for offshore in deeper water because of its greater power and range. Its power is incredible but that also makes it harder to load the bands and if the fish is too close it often shoots the shaft all the way through and out the other side. I did not like the Riffe tip so I bought an adaptor and use a standard tip. Riffes have a non standard size shaft. I think the selection of tips is equally important. I like a tip that has a point as large as the barbs so the penetration is not slowed down by the barbs where they pivot on the shaft. Most AB Biller tips have barbs that stick out at the pivot point when folded back and that can reduce penetration on a long shot. For that reason I don't use Biller tips. I also buy tips that have shorter barbs or cut them down myself. Longer barbs have to penetrate farther before they open and that can keep you from getting a fish sometimes. ( I watched a dive buddy last year shoot a 50 plus lb wahoo only to have the shaft penetrate to the barbs and stop and he didn't get the fish. Jim Bayes also saw the shot. He was using a 48" Biller and for that one time could have used more power or less resistance on the tip for greater penetration.)
By the way, I have a JBL Woody Magnum that has only been used on two dives and was never fired and is still in new condition. I would sell it for $140 or maybe trade for a tank or other gear.( 850-654-7366 if you are interested.)

[spear]

One other thing. I use an AB Biller the most because I dive inshore more than offshore. However, I can't shoot it as accurately because the butt turns down slightly at the handle, so the sighting plane is not level all the way back to the butt. The Riffe and some other guns have a level sighting plane all the way back. I blame all my missed shots on the sighting plane!:D

[Reedy J]

Spear,

Your thought on barbs make sense.

Do you ever have problems with fish pulling off due to the shorter barbs?

Thanks for all the great info. Keep it coming.

-Reedy

[spear]

Yes, I'm sure I've lost a lot of fish due to the shorter barbs or wings, especially some red snapper. Red snapper seem to tear off easily with any shot to the body. Since red snapper are way down on my list of good eating fish I don't shoot many, unless a really big one that I can grill whole gets too close:D ! I did have a nice grouper tear off last week. My spear point was bent to the side so I think it hit something hard behind the fish before it had penetrated all the way for the wings to open, or it hit a large bone that kept it from penetrating.
However, I think the number that I've lost to tearing off has more than been offset by the number of fish gotten by my pole spear which has really short cut off wings. I get more than 90 percent of my fish with a pole spear including snappers ,groupers, amberjacks, triggers, and flounder, and penetration is more critical with a pole spear. Also, tear off is less with the pole spear because you get to the fish to secure him much quicker than with the spear gun. I carry both a spear gun and an extra long pole spear with a stringer attached when I dive.
The Riffe guns come with extra long wings that will hold almost any fish without tearing off, but they don't have a sleeve to hold the wings next to the shaft while backing the shaft out of a fish. To get a fish off you have to push the shaft all the way through, turn it around and push it back through, which can be a hassle and takes time.