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Candy
07-18-08, 06:09 PM
Meeting focused on Florida Artificial Reef Issues held in Alabama

Fishermen, Divers and every industry that supports local fishermen or tourism need to pay close attention to what is happening at the ACOE. The latest challenge to our rights as citizens is a proposal from the Army Corps of Engineers that will Kill Private Artificial Reef Building off our shores. It is feared this could cause irreparable harm to the future health of our local fishery and our tourist driven economy. If this happens, fishermen will surely be hit with more season closures and smaller bag limits to meet the requirements of the Magnuson Stevens Act to end overfishing and create a sustainable fishery.

Clif Payne of the Jacksonville District of the Army Corps of Engineers was the main speaker at the LAARS Meeting held August 16th 2008 in Mobile Alabama. Other Speakers were Cmdr. John Arenstam of the U.S. Coast Guard, who gave a briefing on necessary clearances for marine traffic and marking regulations, and Michael Barnette from NOAA, who gave a briefing on Sea Turtle mortalities. The Gulf States Marine Fisheries Commission hosted the meeting. There were attendees from Texas, Louisiana, and Alabama, but the majority of attendees were from Florida.

Florida’s Artificial Reef Managers traveled to Alabama to attend the LAARS meeting that could have a devastating effect on the future of their respective programs. Jon Dodril from the Florida Fish & Wildlife Artificial Reef Office was in attendance, as well as County Artificial Reef Managers Robert Turpin from Escambia Co., Cindy Halsey from Okaloosa Co. and Tita Sokoloff from Bay Co.

Representing the Charter Industry at the meeting was Bob Zales, President of the National Charter Boat Association, and Mike Eller, President of the Destin Charter Boat Assoc. There were 7 private Florida Fishermen / Reef Builders, as well as Paul Redman, President of The Reef Fish Restoration Association, and Candy Hansard, Reef Deployment Director for The Emerald Coast Reef Association.

The first 2 hours of the meeting were devoted to a slide show presentation given by Clif Payne. His briefing contained a Regulatory Overview and Proposed Regulation changes including the Jacksonville District of the ACOE’s perceived need for standardized conditions throughout the State of Florida.

The last hour of the 4-hour meeting was devoted to a question-and-answer session completely focused on the Jacksonville District of the ACOE’s Artificial Reef Conditions proposal.

Of greatest concern was the proposal to increase the steel thickness of artificial reefs from the current 1/8” to ¼”. This proposal was met with tremendous opposition due to the fact that implementing it would effectively kill the Successful Private Artificial Reef Building programs in the Florida Panhandle.

Clif Payne justified the change in steel-thickness requirement by contending that there was a lack of monitoring. He said that without monitoring, the ACOE had no way of knowing if these small reefs were doing what they wanted. Providing effective, stable habitat and longevity were two of his concerns.

Mike Eller made the observation that the private reef builders were continually building more reefs, every year that replace of any reefs that may get covered in storms or deteriorate over time. He also suggested that when taxpayer money is being used, perhaps they should look at a 50 year lifespan for reefs, but the same requirement should not apply to reefs that are privately funded. This met with unanimous agreement from the other fishermen / reef builders in attendance.

David Walters of Walters Reefs spoke in support of the 1/8” steel reefs, saying that although the new requirement would benefit his concrete reef-building business, not everyone can afford his reefs, and that changing the requirement would take the ability to build reefs away from the little guy.

Candy Hansard showed slides featuring Chicken Transfer Device (CTD) reefs that were photographed by the FWC on a research dive 9 months and 2 days post-deployment. Both reefs were covered with a wide variety of fish, with the most abundant species noted on both reefs being Red Snapper. She also showed a slide with photographic proof of the reefs becoming living-reef systems in less than a year. The reefs have impressive marine growth and a wide variety of recreationally-targeted fish, along with a remarkable variety of tropicals and bait fish, proving that these small reefs are self-sustaining living-reef systems, not just fish attractors.

Another proposal that didn’t sit well with those in attendance was the suggestion that an off-duty police officer accompany deployments to be sure that they are deployed where they are supposed to go. Candy Hansard asked if that was legal and questioned if it was Constitutional: “That is like saying that no one can drive a car unless they have a police officer with them because they might speed.” Mr. Payne then suggested that they could install monitoring devices on all deployment boats. No mention was made of who would finance the cost of police escorts or monitoring devices.

Candy Hansard also made the point that if the Jacksonville district would permit our seafloor like they have done in Alabama that would eliminate the need for deployment monitoring because people could legally deploy their reefs in gigantic areas as opposed to the postage-stamp sized areas we now have.

Alabama’s Mobile district of the ACOE has supported their Artificial Reef Programs by providing impressive permitting, encouraging reef building, and providing Reef Builders a better expectation that their privately financed reefs remain private.

The Mobile District of the Army Corps of Engineers has been extremely successful in permitting almost the entire seafloor off Alabama’s 57 mile coastline. Their permitting has allowed Alabama to build the largest Artificial Reef Program in the United States, even though Alabama only has 5% of the coastline of the entire Gulf of Mexico. Alabama has 1,260 square miles of permitted areas open to Private Artificial Reef Building. They also enjoy the largest and healthiest population of Red Snappers in the Gulf of Mexico.

In contrast, Florida has approximately 1,200 miles of coastline on the Gulf of Mexico and only 464.88 square miles have been permitted to allow private artificial reef building. These areas are not sufficient to meet the needs of Florida’s fishermen and do not provide adequate areas to meet the needs of Florida’s fishery.

Holding meetings out-of-State to address issues that affect Florida’s Fishery and the disparity between 2 districts of the same Federal Agency has created a public relations nightmare for Clif Payne and the Jacksonville District of the ACOE.

It is a scientific fact that fish need habitat to survive. According to the FWC, the seafloor off the Florida Panhandle is 95% barren sandy bottom.** The natural makeup of our coastline will not support a sustainable fishery or our State’s Tourism-Driven Economy.

The Florida Fish & Wildlife has a budget of $261 Million Dollars per year.*** In 2007, the FWC allocated $300 Thousand Dollars to the Artificial Reef Program and the Federal Government donated $400 Thousand dollars to the Florida Artificial Reef Program.**** That $700 Thousand Dollar Budget allocated for Artificial Reefs in the State of Florida was NOT completely spent building much needed reefs. A large portion of that money is given in grants for monitoring and research projects.

While Monitoring and Research are vital to understanding how reefs perform, research does not produce fish, reefs do. It is an undeniable fact that our Local, State and Federal Governments do not allocate sufficient funds to build the reef systems needed in the Florida Panhandle to create a sustainable fishery. This is why it is vital to protect the Private Artificial Reef Building programs in Escambia, Okaloosa and Bay Counties.

According to Kenneth Haddad, the Executive Director of Florida Fish & Wildlife Commission, “Recreational Saltwater fishing generates a staggering amount of consumer spending in this state’s economy- roughly $14.3 million per day…” “That’s close to $10,000 per minute.”* This statistic alone should demand accountability in the management of our ACOE Permitting and Fishery Management decisions.

For years, Private Recreational Fishermen and Charter Boat Captains along the Panhandle have worked diligently and successfully to create a sustainable fishery by providing habitat on an otherwise barren seafloor. The fact that the Red Snapper fishery is so healthy in Northwest Florida can be directly attributed to the tremendous efforts of these private reef builders.

The current proposal to change the Artificial Reef Requirements is on hold until next spring to allow monitoring to take place. No re-evaluation date was given. The Emerald Coast Reef Association has research reefs in place but with the price of gas going from $2.00 per gallon at the dock to over $5.00, their research budget is woefully inadequate to accomplish the monitoring that the ACOE is demanding but unwilling to fund. It would be wise to require government agencies that arbitrarily place mandates to fund those mandates from their respective offices’ budget. If this was done, perhaps unwarranted micromanagement would be curtailed saving the taxpayers untold amount of money and frustration.

If the Private Artificial Reef Programs in the Florida Panhandle are harmed by the ACOE’s actions, someone needs to be held accountable for the damage that will do to our fishery and our economy. If we stop building reefs, our fish population will most definitely suffer and that will create the need for more fish size and bag limit restrictions and season closures to meet the requirements of the Magnuson Stevens Act. Any of those actions will have a devastating effect on our local and State Economy. With saltwater fishing generating $14.3 Million per day in our State*, the damage the ACOE’s Reef Condition proposal will do to our fishery will unnecessarily cause further harm our already suffering economy.

The private artificial reef programs have been extremely successful at their intended purpose, improving the fishery. They have been effectively managed at the County level with oversight of the FWC. The problems cited by Clif Payne are all perceived and no tangible evidence of problems have been offered. Any good manager will tell you that you should always do a cost benefit analysis to determine if an action is wise. The benefits of privately funded reefs to our fishery are indisputable. The cost of micromanagement by the Federal Government, of a program that has not caused any problems that warrant excessive restrictions, is unjustified, costly and unwise.

The citizens of Florida desperately need representation in this matter.

*Directors Message - Florida Wildlife Magazine May/June 2008 page 6 paragraph 1.
**Creating Marine Habitat, The Artificial Reef – FWC DVD 2003
***www.myfwc.com
****Artificial Reef Program Summary Overview September 2007 by: Jon Dodrill FWC

In an effort to raise the money necessary to conduct research and monitoring, The Emerald Coast Reef Association is hosting a Fishing Tournament August 2nd. The entry fee is in the reach of all fishermen and the Grand Prize is a deployed Private Reef. Please help us save Artificial Reef Building and have fun at the same time. For more information go to www.ecreef.org

Viper
07-18-08, 09:27 PM
I guess my first question would be " How does the thickness of the material affect their ability to monitor the artificial reefs?" If THEY have a problem with THEIR monitoring program or procedures, THEY should fix it. Next would be "Why doesn't the Mobile District have a monitoring issue ? Make the JAX district procedures the same as Mobile's." Finally, to hell with the idea of some doughnut eating Bubba cop riding along on the deployment; how about the same inspector who certifies that the actual artificial reef complies with the requested permit ride along (on HIS nickel) OR put a transponder on the transport vessel with the ability to Squawk IDENT or otherwise mark the location when the drop is made ? FAA has only been doing this with airliners for about 50 years. How hard can it be ? That surface technology exists, all they would have to do would be to provide the proper SAT transponder to the designated drop vessel. NOT ROCKET SCIENCE !!

Viper
07-18-08, 09:37 PM
My apologies. What I SHOULD have stated upfront was a tremendous thanks to Candy for taking the time and effort to attend this meeting, providing our input and protecting our interests. We all owe her Kudos for this effort...AND we all need to ask our elected officials WHY an appointed COE JACKSONVILLE DISTRICT manager feels the need to hold a meeting in ALABAMA regarding FLORIDA issues.....Hmmmm...sorta makes ya wonder, doesn't it ??

Candy
07-23-08, 02:12 PM
Hello Everyone,

I owe Clif Payne and the Jacksonville District of the ACOE a Gigantic Apology!

A series of very unfortunate events has occurred and most regrettably, Clif Payne and the Jacksonville District of the ACOE has, at my doing, received the fall-out from them. For this, I am tremendously and sincerely sorry.

After the LAARS meeting, I composed an e-mail asking Clif Payne why that meeting was held in Alabama. When I didn’t receive an answer after several days, I assumed that he was ignoring me and that he didn’t want to answer that question.

I just found out that Bob Zales called that meeting in Alabama. I still do not understand why a meeting that addressed issues that only affected Florida was held in Alabama and I am not about to make any assumptions. I will get the answer to that question and as soon as I have it, I will share it with you all.

When I found out that Clif Payne and his Office of the ACOE was not responsible for scheduling the meeting in Alabama, I was quite frankly annoyed and confused that he still had not answered my question so I went to my sent file to see just exactly when that e-mail was sent and to my absolute horror, the e-mail wasn’t there. I then did a search and found that e-mail in my Drafts file with following 6 words that hit me like a truck doing 100 mph: “This message has not been sent.” I feel absolutely and literally sick about this!

I have already sent an apology to Clif Payne but I felt that I had a responsibility to all of you to clear up this matter. I may not always agree with the actions of the ACOE but I would NEVER intentionally make false accusations about them or anyone else for that matter.

Please watch for an amended report that will be posted a.s.a.p.

With my most sincere and humble apology to Clif, the ACOE and to all of you,

Candy Hansard

Bayesj
07-23-08, 02:53 PM
Candy and All,
Nice e-mail Candy but they still haven't answered the question of "why was a meeting concerning Florida held in Alabama"??? It still looks to me like "responsible" people are not performing their duties in a responsible manner.

Viper
07-23-08, 03:28 PM
I wouldn't be too sorry either....after all, effectively you just did to HIM what he just did to all of US in NW Florida....kinda reminds me of that great line from the movie Full Metal Jacket....

"Without even the courtesy of a reach-around"

captfrankie
07-24-08, 06:47 AM
Viper,
If I am remembering the movie correctly the person that so boldly made that statement was shot to death about half way through the movie. Effectively ending the sharing of his wisdom with all of us.

We don't need that kind of an ending.

Viper
07-24-08, 07:52 AM
Capt Frankie, you are correct regarding the timing in the movie and the ultimate end of that character, but it was still a good line.

Viper

Candy
07-24-08, 08:20 AM
Clif Payne has graciously accepted my apology with no harm done. :)

Jon Dodrill, FWC, sent me the following explanation as to how the meeting came to be held in Alabama. I have copied it verbatim. Now, you all have the truth.

Candy, as a point of clarification, back in March, 2008 Clif Payne (USACOE) and I were requested to address the Commercial and Recreational Advisory Panel of the Gulf States Marine Fisheries Commission at their meeting in Galveston TX. One of two Florida recreational representatives, Bob Zales, was on the Advisory Panel and requested that LAARS issues be discussed. Another Florida recreational fishing panel representative, Scott Riley, was absent. The GSMFC sent me an authorization to travel to this meeting. Clif had scheduling conflicts and could not make the meeting. There were other unrelated topics on the advisory panel agenda that day. Following my general overview of the LAARS program, the Panel made a motion and voted to convene another meeting which was to be attended by the Gulf States Marine Fisheries Commission state artificial reef subcommittee representatives, plus FL NW panhandle reef coordinators, representatives of the NW FL charter fleets, affected commercial fishing interests, the Mobile District Corps, etc. The intent was to enable Clif to present the Jacksonville Regulatory Office artificial reef permit conditions for general discussion as well as review the regulatory responsibilities of the Corps.

James Ballard, a GSMFC employee, was tasked with creating an agenda and coordinating the time and place of the meeting. My assumption was that Mobile was chosen by GSMFC staff mainly because it had an airport and was also within driving distance of the majority of participants traveling from both east and west. Jon

Mattatoar
07-25-08, 08:50 AM
Viper, the metal thickness issue I had heard so much about was related to the rate of corrosion and therefore the life span of the reef before they crumbled to dust. True, the encrusted areas will last a little while after the original metal structure has rusted away but, not for long. "Monitoring" the reefs may be related to determining the rate of structural decay of 1/4 versus 1/8 inch metal.

If memory serves, the Florida Artificial Reef program is looking to promote reefs with a lifespan of several decades at a minimum. I'm thinking like 50+ years. You don't even want to know what depths they were recommending for storm survival. Ask Bill or Jon for the approved sources of publicly (grants etc.) funded state reefs. They are stiff and restricts you to either big ships (expensive to clean and sink) or reef modules (reef balls, gruoper ghettos, etc.) versus culvert... and guess what? They don't like culverts! (mostly because they are often deployed in a poor fashion... spread out. They work best when piled up but that takes a tremendous more time then rolling them off of a barge.)

...btw Clif's a good guy in a goverment job. He helped me out quite a few times when I was having issues with permits.

Viper
07-25-08, 12:21 PM
Those are good words and I appreciate the extra info....BUT....it's still the same Gulf of Mexico as the one right offshore from Alabama....so why is there no commonality in permitting, size of permitted areas, allowable metal thickness/densities, etc ?? Why does a Federal Agency (COE) allow different rules and procedures for contiguous states sharing the exact same body of water ? If anything the NW Florida portion of the Gulf has less ship traffic than the Alabama portion due to the simple fact that we have no large ship building facilities in the Destin/FWB vicinity and no cruise ships or container ships operate in or out of here, so interference with deep draft vessels shouldn't be as much of an issue as it would SEEM it should be over in Mobile.

Candy
07-25-08, 01:48 PM
Below is my amended report. If you have saved the first copy, please replace it with this report.

Thank you,

Candy


Future of Florida’s Private Artificial Reef Building Threatened
By: Candy Hansard – July 25, 2008

Fishermen, Divers, and every industry that supports local fishermen or tourism need to pay close attention to what is happening at the Army Corps of Engineers. The latest challenge to our rights as citizens is a proposal, from the ACOE that will place unnecessary restrictions on reef materials that will substantially limit the availability of materials and increase the cost of materials and deployment beyond the reach of private reef builders.
If enacted this proposal will Kill Private Artificial Reef Building off our shores.
This ACOE proposal could cause irreparable harm to the future health of our local fishery and our tourist driven economy. If this happens, fishermen will surely be hit with more season closures and smaller bag limits to meet the requirements of the Magnuson Stevens Act to end overfishing and create a sustainable fishery.

The Gulf States Marine Fisheries Commission hosted the Large Area Artificial Reef Site (LAARS) meeting August 16th 2008 at the Marriott Hotel in Mobile Alabama. There were attendees from Texas, Louisiana, and Alabama, but the majority of attendees were from Florida. Clif Payne of the Jacksonville District of the Army Corps of Engineers was the main speaker at the meeting. Other Speakers were, Cmdr. John Arenstam of the U.S. Coast Guard, who gave a briefing on necessary clearances for marine traffic and marking regulations, and Michael Barnette from NOAA, who gave a briefing on Sea Turtle mortalities.
(For information as to why the meeting was held in Alabama, go to the last page of this report.)

Florida’s County Artificial Reef Managers, Robert Turpin from Escambia Co., Cindy Halsey from Okaloosa Co. and Tita Sokoloff from Bay Co., traveled to Alabama to attend the LAARS meeting that addressed issues which could have a devastating effect on the future of their respective programs. Jon Dodril from the Florida Fish & Wildlife Artificial Reef Office was also in attendance.

Representing the Charter Industry at the meeting was Bob Zales, President of the National Charter Boat Association, and Mike Eller, President of the Destin Charter Boat Association. There were 7 private Florida Fishermen / Reef Builders, as well as Paul Redman, President of The Reef Fish Restoration Association, and Candy Hansard, Reef Deployment Director for The Emerald Coast Reef Association.

The first 2 hours of the meeting were devoted to a slide show presentation given by Clif Payne. His briefing contained a Regulatory Overview and Proposed Regulation changes including the Jacksonville District of the ACOE’s perceived need for standardized conditions throughout the State of Florida.

The last hour of the 4-hour meeting was devoted to a question-and-answer session completely focused on the Jacksonville District of the ACOE’s Artificial Reef Conditions proposal.

Of greatest concern was the proposal to increase the steel thickness of artificial reefs from the current 1/8” to ¼”. This proposal was met with tremendous opposition due to the fact that implementing it would effectively kill the Successful Private Artificial Reef Building programs in the Florida Panhandle.

Clif Payne justified the change in steel-thickness requirement by contending that there was a lack of monitoring. He said that without monitoring, the ACOE had no way of knowing if these small reefs were doing what they wanted. Providing effective, stable habitat and longevity were two of his concerns.

Mike Eller made the observation that the private reef builders were continually building more reefs that replace any reefs that may get covered in storms or deteriorate over time. He also suggested that when taxpayer money is being used, perhaps they should look at a 50 year lifespan for reefs, but the same requirement should not apply to reefs that are privately funded. This met with unanimous agreement from the other fishermen / reef builders in attendance.

David Walters of Walters Reefs spoke in support of the 1/8” steel reefs, saying that although the new requirement would benefit his concrete reef-building business, not everyone can afford his reefs, and that changing the requirement would take the ability to build reefs away from the little guy.

Candy Hansard showed slides featuring Chicken Transfer Device (CTD) reefs that were photographed by the FWC on a research dive 9 months and 2 days post-deployment. Both reefs were covered with a wide variety of fish, with the most abundant species noted on both reefs being Red Snapper. She also showed a slide with photographic proof of the reefs becoming living-reef systems in less than a year. The reefs have impressive marine growth and a wide variety of recreationally-targeted fish, along with a remarkable variety of tropicals and bait fish, proving that these small reefs are self-sustaining living-reef systems, not just fish attractors.

Another proposal that didn’t sit well with those in attendance was the suggestion that an off-duty police officer accompany deployments to be sure that they are deployed where they are supposed to go. Candy Hansard asked if that was legal and questioned if it was Constitutional: “That is like saying that no one can drive a car unless they have a police officer with them because they might speed.” Mr. Payne then suggested that they could install monitoring devices on all deployment boats. No mention was made of who would finance the cost of police escorts or monitoring devices.

Candy Hansard also made the point that if the Jacksonville district would permit our seafloor like they have done in Alabama, it would eliminate the need for deployment monitoring because people could legally deploy their reefs in gigantic areas as opposed to the postage-stamp sized areas we now have.

Alabama’s Mobile district of the ACOE has supported their Artificial Reef Programs by providing impressive permitting, encouraging reef building, and providing Reef Builders a better expectation that their privately financed reefs remain private.

The Mobile District of the Army Corps of Engineers has been extremely successful in permitting almost the entire seafloor off Alabama’s 57 mile coastline. Their permitting has allowed Alabama to build the largest Artificial Reef Program in the United States, even though Alabama only has 5% of the coastline of the entire Gulf of Mexico. Alabama has 1,260 square miles of permitted5 areas open to Private Artificial Reef Building. They also enjoy the largest and healthiest population of Red Snappers in the Gulf of Mexico.

In contrast, Florida has approximately 1,200 miles of coastline on the Gulf of Mexico 4 and only 464.88 square miles have been permitted to allow private artificial reef building. These areas are not sufficient to meet the needs of Florida’s fishermen and do not provide adequate areas to meet the needs of Florida’s fishery.

The disparity between 2 districts of the same Federal Agency needs to be addressed and equality should be achieved. The future health of Florida’s fishery is directly tied to our ability to build reefs and that is currently hampered by the obvious lack of permitting off Florida’s coastline.

It is a scientific fact that fish need habitat to survive. According to the FWC, the seafloor off the Florida Panhandle is 95% barren sandy bottom 2. The natural makeup of our coastline will not support a sustainable fishery or our State’s Tourism-Driven Economy.

The Florida Fish & Wildlife has a budget of $261 million dollars per year 3. In 2007, the FWC allocated $300 thousand dollars to the Artificial Reef Program and the Federal Government donated $400 thousand dollars to the Florida Artificial Reef Program 4. That $700 thousand dollar budget allocated for Artificial Reefs in the State of Florida was not completely spent building much needed reefs. A large portion of that money is given in grants for monitoring and research projects.

While Monitoring and Research are vital to understanding how reefs perform, monitoring and research do not produce fish . . . reefs do. It is an undeniable fact that our Local, State, and Federal Governments do not allocate sufficient funds to build the reef systems needed in the Florida Panhandle to create a sustainable fishery; therefore, it is vital to protect the Private Artificial Reef Building programs in Escambia, Okaloosa and Bay Counties.

According to Kenneth Haddad, the Executive Director of Florida Fish & Wildlife Commission, “Recreational Saltwater fishing generates a staggering amount of consumer spending in this state’s economy- roughly $14.3 million per day…” “That’s close to $10,000 per minute”1 . This statistic alone should demand accountability in the management of our ACOE Permitting and Fishery Management decisions.

For years, Private Recreational Fishermen and Charter Boat Captains along the Florida Panhandle have worked diligently and successfully to create a sustainable fishery by providing habitat on an otherwise barren seafloor. The fact that the Red Snapper fishery is so healthy in Northwest Florida can be directly attributed to the tremendous efforts of these private reef builders.

The current proposal to change the Artificial Reef Requirements is on hold until next spring to allow monitoring to take place. No re-evaluation date was given. The Emerald Coast Reef Association has research reefs in place, but with the price of gas going from $2.00 per gallon at the dock to over $5.00, their research budget is woefully inadequate to accomplish the monitoring that the ACOE is demanding but unwilling to fund. Government agencies that arbitrarily enact mandates should be forced to fund those mandates from their own budget. If this was done, perhaps unwarranted micromanagement would be curtailed saving the taxpayers untold amount of money and frustration.

If the Private Artificial Reef Programs in the Florida Panhandle are harmed by the ACOE’s actions, there needs to be accountability for the damage that will do to our fishery and our economy. If we stop building reefs, our fish population will most definitely suffer and that will create the need for more fish size and bag limit restrictions and season closures to meet the requirements of the Magnuson Stevens Act. Any of those actions will have a devastating effect on our local and State Economy. With saltwater fishing generating $14.3 Million per day in our State, 1 the damage the ACOE’s Reef Condition proposal will do to our fishery will unnecessarily cause further harm to our already suffering economy.

The private artificial reef programs, in the Florida Panhandle, have been extremely successful at their intended purpose, improving the fishery. These programs have been successfully and effectively managed at the County level with oversight of the FWC. Any good manager will tell you that you should always do a cost benefit analysis to determine if an action is wise. The benefits of privately funded reefs to our fishery are indisputable. The cost of micromanagement by the Federal Government, of a program that has not caused any problems warranting excessive restrictions, is unjustified, costly and unwise.

References:
(1)Directors Message - Florida Wildlife Magazine May/June 2008 page 6 paragraph 1.
(2)Creating Marine Habitat, The Artificial Reef – FWC DVD 2003
(3)www.myfwc.com
(4)Artificial Reef Program Summary Overview September 2007 by: Jon Dodrill FWC
(5) http://www.outdooralabama.com/Fishing/saltwater/where/artificial-reefs/

Location of Meeting Explanation submitted by: Jon Dodril, FWC on 7/23/08
In March, 2008 Clif Payne (USACOE) and I were requested to address the Commercial and Recreational Advisory Panel of the Gulf States Marine Fisheries Commission at their meeting in Galveston TX. One of two Florida recreational representatives, Bob Zales, was on the Advisory Panel and requested that LAARS issues be discussed. Another Florida recreational fishing panel representative, Scott Riley, was absent. The GSMFC sent me an authorization to travel to this meeting. Clif had scheduling conflicts and could not make the meeting. There were other unrelated topics on the advisory panel agenda that day. Following my general overview of the LAARS program, the Panel made a motion and voted to convene another meeting which was to be attended by the Gulf States Marine Fisheries Commission state artificial reef subcommittee representatives, plus FL NW panhandle reef coordinators, representatives of the NW FL charter fleets, affected commercial fishing interests, the Mobile District Corps, etc. The intent was to enable Clif to present the Jacksonville Regulatory Office artificial reef permit conditions for general discussion as well as review the regulatory responsibilities of the Corps.
James Ballard, a GSMFC employee, was tasked with creating an agenda and coordinating the time and place of the meeting. My assumption was that Mobile was chosen by GSMFC staff mainly because it had an airport and was also within driving distance of the majority of participants traveling from both east and west.

Candy Hansard is the Reef Deployment Director for The Emerald Coast Reef Assoc. www.ecreef.org - candy@ecreef.org

Panhandlemike
07-29-08, 09:43 AM
Excellent Article Candy. I reccomend you send this to local news papers to see if they will publish it. We need to get the entire community involved.

Mike

Candy
07-29-08, 10:04 AM
Mike,

I sent it to the NWF Daily News. Maybe if they started getting it from several different people they would realize that this is an important issue for our coastal area and that this story needs to be told.

I will e-mail anyone a copy of the entire report with pictures placed in the correct location of the report.

Send me an e-mail with your request to: candy@valp.net

Mike Lilly
07-30-08, 09:31 PM
All of you need to keep this in mind and its coming from someone who has built hundreds of reefs in the past 12 years. The fishery was built by the old timers that from Panama City to Gulfport realized that if you build it they will come and they will prosper! This self invented "overfishing" they speak of is their way to CONTROL YOU! Heck the man that invented and pushed the passage of the Magneson-Stevens act was convicted of 7 counts of corruption and many other charges just 48 hours ago he's on his way to the pen! Folks you are dealing with a bunch of self ordained governmental bureaucrats that only know that the more problems you can get the public to believe exist is nothing more than job security for them. Now they are throwing this baloney about reef longevity and is this reef a viable reef or an attractor! If it creates habitat for shelter, spurs reproduction and increases the fishery in sheer numbers its viable! We as the public used to not even have to pay these salaried fishery managers for a permit to dump- now they have their hand out to congress for money {grants}in one direction and in our wallets in the other direction. I for one am sick of their shell game!! You people wake up this management business was a hoax from the beginning. Some of you may think that I am being to hard on these people but they are on the brink of devastating thousands of individuals, families and businesses with their hogwash and you should be hopping mad. I have fished the gulf coast since I was a small child. I have never seen the snapper popualation so high. Its not from their lopsided management its from the sweat of the fishing public. I sell these coops and 95% of the reefs I put down are from the recreational angler not the commercial or charter sector! They've already completly busted the charter guys and gals and believe me we as recreational fishermen and women are next! We show up with a degreed professional at these so called input meetings and the conservation {treehuggers who don't want you fishing anyway} show up with 3 of them. Its time to wake up because it doesn't smell like roses!

Viper
08-05-08, 11:55 AM
From the online August edition of Undercurrent :


"Are Artificial Reefs Sinking Into Oblivion?: A bad economy may mean fewer efforts to turn manmade naval warships and subway cars into underwater fish havens. Case in point is the U.S.S. Hoyt Vandenberg, a 520-foot former military ship that is scheduled to be an artificial reef off Key West. The cost to sink it is now $8.45 million, four times higher than the $2.1 million estimated when the project was proposed in 2001. The banks that originally offered to invest $4.6 million stopped funding at $3.2 million. Now Key West's city commissioner says it might be best to cut losses and sell the Vandenberg to a scrap yard for $2 million. "Well, at least it will be clean scrap because they spent several million dollars cleaning it," says Monroe County Commissioner Sonny McCoy."

atlantacapt
08-06-08, 08:05 AM
Sounds like Okaloosa County should buy it...:D

Candy
08-06-08, 08:42 AM
How does this sound?:

Bring investors in from Okaloosa County and Bay County and sink her between the two counties in STATE waters!

Maybe someone would be interested in sponsoring a "Legendary Fish & Dive Reef". Something like this reef could help sell boats, marina slips & dry storage, fill condo's with out-of-town visitors etc... And best of all, it would help our local economy and our fishery!

Look at the income the Oriskany brought to Escambia Co...over 1 million in the first year! Perhaps between Okaloosa and Bay we could manage to get that reef up here. God knows, with our wet desert, we need it more than the Keys!

According to viper's post she is already cleaned so that work is done, now we would just have to get the ACOE to permit a home for her off our State shores and find backers and move that baby up here!

Dreeeeaaaaammm....Dream, Dream, Dream

jonesrw
08-06-08, 09:01 AM
Dream is about right. Just think about a 520 ft ship sunk in maybe 90 or 100 feet of water and within a 30 minute boat ride! Now that would be sweet.

Viper
08-06-08, 09:53 AM
Might not be able to get a permit.....after all, parts of her are probably less than 1/2 inch thick....:D

Candy
08-06-08, 10:50 AM
I'm drooling. Click on the thumbnail to see why.

BTW, the Bay County Artificial Reef Manager doubts they could afford to be part of a joint project due to the fact that they are struggleing just to make payroll right now.

That doesn't mean it won't be possible just that private investors would become critical.

Still dreaming...........:D